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February 18, 2008

A System of Temporary Framing, Shifting Frames

Consider framing and interactions in

STYLE
Flaubert wanted to write a novel
About nothing. It was to have no subject
And be sustained upon the style alone,
Like the Holy Ghost cruising above
The abyss, or like the little animals
In Disney cartoons who stand upon a branch
That breaks, but do not fall
Till they look down. He never wrote that novel,
And neither did he write another one
That would have been called La Spirale,
Wherein the hero's fortunes were to rise
In dreams, while his walking life disintegrated.

Even so, for these two books
We thank the master. They can be read,
With difficulty, in the spirit alone,
Are not so wholly lost as certain works
Burned at Alexandria, flooded at Florence,
And are never taught at universities.
Moreover, they are not deformed by style,
That fire that eats what it illuminates.

HOWARD NEMEROV
(from Poem Hunter)

If you'd like to frame your interaction with Style with more information about Howard Nemerov, click here

**(what are the benefits/disadvantages, etc. of this bio frame, and the effects of using it after having responded to the poem, instead of framing your responses within this bio context [frame]?)**
__________________________________________

Now consider systems of frames/framing and interacting systems in:
(click Me and Bubble went to Memphis for larger form)
related to (interacts with) the following video:

Posted by thyliasm at February 18, 2008 06:17 PM

Comments

If Jim Crow flies strait, will the Holy Ghost curtail his cruise?

Is Nemerov confined to the limit of Sophie’s choice?

Are the boundaries of fire, water, and lack of spirit the only things that stop the universities from displaying these works?

--Colin

Posted by: ctcamp at February 18, 2008 06:50 PM

Chris Fitzpatrick


1) If an artist can be satisfied in producing mediocrity, they must only embrace a single aspect of their creation; however, to truly produce a masterpiece, must not the artist treat their mind, the medium, the environment, and the intended audience as an interacting system which will continue to grow as an independent being even after their death?

2) From amateur to masterful productions, every human creation, even though it may lack certain fundamental or aesthetic qualities, has value even if it is base and unrefined because it frames a quality of the world around us: clarifying the familiar and known, illuminating the strange and unknown, or providing a reference to what is inferior or superior.

3) If style or subject alone must be espoused, what is of the greatest value to human creations?

Posted by: xanthex at February 18, 2008 06:55 PM

Chris Fitzpatrick


1) If an artist can be satisfied in producing mediocrity, they must only embrace a single aspect of their creation; however, to truly produce a masterpiece, must not the artist treat their mind, the medium, the environment, and the intended audience as an interacting system which will continue to grow as an independent being even after their death?

2) From amateur to masterful productions, every human creation, even though it may lack certain fundamental or aesthetic qualities, has value even if it is base and unrefined because it frames a quality of the world around us: clarifying the familiar and known, illuminating the strange and unknown, or providing a reference to what is inferior or superior.

3) If style or subject alone must be espoused, what is of the greatest value to human creations?

Posted by: xanthex at February 18, 2008 06:55 PM

One of my questions would be to state the obvious: Why did the author not write "La Spirale?" Did he really plan to write a novel without a subject or did the idea of writing a novel without a subject instantly attract readers?

In the second stanza in the third and fourth lines, why does HOWARD NEMEROV use the religious term "spirit" alone? Is he trying to make reference to the Holy Trintity?

~Shakir

Posted by: shakire at February 18, 2008 06:58 PM

Queries by Matts Lewis and Roney, J. Matthew Daly, L. Marie Peterson.

What is a subject?

In the poem, Nemerom refers to the existence of nothing supporting something (The Holy Ghost over the abyss, cartoon animals hovering in space). Can nothingness exist without a referent by which to identify it? Does it exist at all?

Why does Nemerov thank Flaubert for works that he never authored? Is Neverov the author of these works? Has he imagined them into being? Is it important that Flauber is "the mastter"?

Are the imagined works of Flaubert being taught at this university in this class? Is Nemerov false in saying that they are never taught?

Posted by: mjlew at February 18, 2008 06:59 PM

1. Can style stand alone, or is it dependent on other factors?

2. Interacting Systems: What is lost upon the interaction of thought systems and the system of recording said thoughts through writing, speaking, etc.?

3. Is style a framing mechanism when creating our projects/poams?

-Aman, Kendra, Taylor

Posted by: amanshar at February 18, 2008 07:01 PM

Nick's Questions:

1) What limits are self imposed by writing a poem about a book about style in this manner, how does this inhibit/accomplish the goal that it was trying to get across?

2) What is the connection between the Disney characters and historic locations (Alexandria/Florence). How is this/is it at all related to a connection between style and imagination?

3) What is the origin of this idea, and how can it be claimed as one person's plan to write the books? Anyone could have thought of the idea, why attribute it to Flaubert, how does this help the conveying of a message?

Posted by: ndjames at February 18, 2008 07:02 PM

Deepak Mangla and Dmitri Malcolm

1. The actual act of reading can be framed in different ways:
When I’m reading a line, I first read each line independently for individual comprehension, but after reading the entire poem, my understandings of each line felt as if they should be linked into a common theme… Is this appropriate?

2. Engaging Content:
The line: Moreover, they are not deformed by style,
That fire that eats what it illuminates.

We read this line at the very end of the poem. If it were the start point of the poem, how would you frame the rest of the poem differently? How would it integrate with the examples differently?

Posted by: dmangla at February 18, 2008 07:04 PM

Brent Pantaleo, Krista Mathews and Katie Caralis

1) Why does Nemerov use the frame of poetry if he believes style inherently deforms ideas? Does he view style as effortless?

2) Is written poetry limiting to the themes it conveys? Can these themes be understood if they're never articulated?

3) What correlation is Nemerov influencing by presenting style in the form of religion, a modern economical juggernaut, and ancient civilization?

Posted by: pantaleo at February 18, 2008 07:06 PM

Deepak Mangla and Dmitri Malcolm
Intergrating systems:
In the first stanza the examples convey the idea that you need the realization of two entities acknowledging their interaction and connection then will an effect of that knowledge progress. For example with the Disney characters realizing the branch breaking, looking down and then they fall ( a digression). There is a lack of interaction, you need the interaction for an effect to take place.

When thinking of interacting systems, the question of the significance of lack of interaction in the examples given as important comes to thought. Is there importance in that? Was this intended?

Posted by: dkmalcom at February 18, 2008 07:06 PM

3.) The sytle of the poem is that he wants to talk about nothing. But the juxtaposition of the ideas in the poem is the author truly ends up talking aobut something (that... being two books). Where is he going with his style as far as the subject of the poem?


--Shakire

Posted by: shakire at February 18, 2008 07:09 PM

Chris Fitzpatrick

1.) Time is aspect of what everyone calls a masterpiece. Not only time, culture, ideas, social constructs can depict if a piece of work is truly considered a masterpiece. And even if a group does, would everyone is modern society can say it is a masterpiece? I would say no.

~Shakir

Posted by: shakire at February 18, 2008 07:23 PM

Walter Lacy

1.) Does the last stanza of the poem create a frame for understanding the entire piece

2.) Why Does Nemerov use the interaction between knowledge and light negatively?

3.) Does Style in the title mean the same as style within the text?

Posted by: wlacy at February 18, 2008 07:39 PM

Chris Fitzpatrick

3.) The greatest value of human creation would be its imagination. Especially in the past 100 years, the world has seen dramastic changes because of some of the man-made inventions that has the earth changing so rapidly that we cannot predict changes within the next 20 years! So I would say that imagination would be the greatest value of human creation

Posted by: shakire at February 18, 2008 07:57 PM

BUBBLE

I believe that the poem, when I was reading it, was a struggle between bubbles and his mother. But after looking at the video, I notice a few things. One of them is "eggs being thrown at bubbles." It made me think about the civil rights era that there were times that people of color would protest in the streets of the south and they would have to deal with objects would be thrown at them. Plus the fact that bubbles mother passed away is another struggle that could depict the civil rights times.

Posted by: shakire at February 18, 2008 09:10 PM

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